My
eBay PayPal Nightmare!
How
eBay botched up my auction, pit the buyer against the
seller, bred mistrust, misappropriated funds, and
absolved itself of all responsibility...
I realize eBay war stories are a dime
a dozen but here’s one more. It was your typical
auction for a Nikon Lens. I priced it well, waited ten
long days, politely answered numerous queries by email,
garnered two bids -- one snipe in the last 30 seconds
-- and got a sale. Whoopee! The customary email from
eBay arrived with the congratulatory subject line;
“Your eBay item
sold!”
Seconds later the listing page on eBay refreshed
announcing that the buyer had paid through PayPal. Ever
vigilant, I logged onto PayPal to confirm the payment.
I never trusted PayPal but the buyer’s funds were
there. I put in a request for the funds to be
transfered into my bank account, noted PayPal’s fee,
and logged off. Gloating, I sent the buyer a courtesy
email informing him I was packing the lens and sending
it. That’s when eBay botched up the deal!
Exactly 13 minutes after the auction
ended -- I don’t know if there’s any significance to
the number -- I received a rather ominous email from
eBay.
From: ended@ebay.com
Subject: MC018 eBay Listing Removed: Search and Browse
Manipulation ( 211996066)
Date: June 6, 2008 10:56:11 AM PDT
To: Michael J. Weber
120266505379 - RARE NIKON AF NIKKOR 70-210 MM 1:4 F/4 -
MINT LIKE NEW!
The listing was removed because it violated the eBay
Search and Browse Manipulation policy. The violation
occurred when you included the following information in
your listing:
in title: LIKE NEW
We notified members who placed bids on the item that
the listing has been canceled. Sellers are not
permitted to include any information that does not
describe or is not directly relevant to the item being
sold within a listing. Any information included within
a listing that may misrepresent the terms of sale is
also not permitted.
What?
Firstly, the lens was “like new”. The 14 shoppers on
eBay who put “watches” on the auction read that it had
only been used once or twice. But rules are rules, you
say, no matter how arcane. Valid point. So, why didn’t
eBay end the auction on day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,
or 10? More to the point: Why did they end it after it
ended? Isn’t that an oxymoron? As Yogi Berra once said
"it ain't over til it's over". It was over! Why did
eBay pull the auction after the buyer paid PayPal and I
transferred the funds? Doesn’t eBay own PayPal? Is this
not your classic case of Peter not knowing what Paul is
doing and the left hand not knowing the right?
The buyer was as confused as me. He forwarded the
following email sent by eBay to him. It’s wording is
misleading and dishonest.
MC024
eBay Listing Removed ( 211996066)
Dear Sam,
Thank you for your bid on the following auction-style
listing:
120266505379 - RARE NIKON AF NIKKOR 70-210 MM 1:4 F/4 -
MINT LIKE NEW!
Unfortunately, eBay has removed this . All bids or
offers on this listing have been canceled. Because the
listing was ended, you no longer have any obligation to
purchase this item. If the seller chooses to relist the
item, you're welcome to bid on it again.
Listings are removed for different reasons. For
example:
- The way the item was listed may violate eBay policy.
- The removal may be part of a separate action taken by
eBay that is unrelated to the listing itself.
We hope you understand that, due to privacy concerns,
we're unable to discuss the details of why this listing
was ended. However, please note that the removal of
this listing should not suggest that this seller's
standing in the eBay Community has been called into
question.
Michael,
Got the following message from Ebay so are you selling
it or did you cancel it?
Sam
Note that eBay led the buyer to conclude that I
canceled the auction. Why did eBay word their letter to
make it appear that I was at fault? Was it my privacy
that they really cared about or were they covering
their own sweet ass? And why didn’t eBay copy me? Note
that I received this email through the buyer, not eBay.
I began to smell a Phishing attack. Had the buyer
scammed me somehow by redirecting my browser to a phony
eBay and PayPal site? It wouldn’t be the first time but
that didn’t add up. The buyer seemed legit. A torrent
of emails between us ensued even as we were both logged
onto eBay and PayPal in the background trying to make
sense out of their nonsensical behavior.
Sam,
I'm selling it! Can you believe these arrogant
a-holes canceled the auction after it
ended? I'm stunned! How stupid can they get?
Anyway, I know you paid and I'm about to ship it unless
you have any objections?
Michael
PS: For you edification they ended the
auction because I had "like new" in the
headline. FYI/the lens is like new!
Michael,
I just sent you a message and I understand what you are
saying and I believe you but the problem is they are in
the process of returning my funds to my account (within
48 hours business hours). I would hate to tell
you go ahead and ship it to me then we have a problem
where they will refund me the money and take it out of
your account and I have your lens, I would rather wait
till Ebay sort out the money issue then talk other wise
you and I will be wasting a lot of time. As you
can tell I am very prompt at paying for items
I purchase but I am much more concern that you may get
the short end of the stick on this.
Sam
Sam,
I agree. I suggest we hold a private auction on eBay
for $177.50 after we're both assured that our
accounts are straight on Paypal. It would be
new auction and new deal therefore it should pose no
problem for eBay or Paypal.
Michael
In the interim the buyer received another cryptic cover
your ass email from eBay absolving the company from any
involvement and leaving to buyer to essentially fend
for himself. After botching the deal and taking his
money eBay told the buyer to go screw himself.
Dear Sam,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to item number
120266505379. You've
mentioned in your email that you already paid for this
item before it
was removed from the site. I also gather from your
email that you would
like to know your options on how to get your money
back. I understand
your concern and am happy to help you.
eBay removed the listing that you were bidding on
because it violated
eBay policy. Due to privacy concerns, I am unable to
discuss the details
of why the listing was ended.
Because this listing was ended, you and the seller will
not be able to
leave Feedback for this transaction.
We also feel that it is important to assure you that
the timing of this
auction being cancelled by eBay is in no way related to
your payment. We
were not aware of your payment when the auction was
cancelled. The two
are purely co-incidental.
Since you have paid for the item, we encourage you to
consider taking
any one of the following actions (please see the
details below):
-- Contact your Seller --
We encourage that you contact the seller to see what
can work for both
of you. However, because the item you reported has
ended and is no
longer viewable, you cannot request your seller's
contact information
through eBay. Instead, please reply to this email, we
can send you the
seller's name and telephone number. Be sure to include
the Item number
and the seller's User ID in your request. At the same
time, your
transaction partner will receive a copy of this request
which includes
your own contact information.
-- File a Dispute ?-
Sam, if direct communication with the seller doesn't
resolve the
issue, I encourage you to open an Item Not Received or
Significantly Not
as Described dispute.
You can open a dispute once at least 10 days -- but no
more than 60 days
-- have passed since the date the listing ended.
To learn more about the Item Not Received or
Significantly Not as
Described process, go to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html
Since you paid for the item using PayPal, your purchase
is covered up to
$200 at no additional cost. However, many
transactions are covered up
to $2,000 by PayPal Buyer Protection.
For more information about how eBay protects buyers, go
to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/isgw-buyer-protection-steps.html
-- File a complaint with IC3 --
Lastly, you may also consider filing a complaint with
the Internet Crime
Complaint Center (IC3). The IC3 is a partnership
between the Federal
Bureau of Investigation and the National White Collar
Crime Center. They
will review complaints and refer information to the
appropriate local,
state, or federal agency.
To file a complaint with the IC3, go to:
http://www.ic3.gov/
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate
to reply to this
email and let us know.
Sincerely,
Jeanette
eBay Customer Support
So, eBay screwed the both of us, the buyer and the
seller! The buyer emailed me this proposal in a panic.
Michael,
This is amazing now Ebay does not know what they are
doing. Michael we can do either one no that they
have not put the money back into my account and is
still in your account.
Option 1
1. You can send me the item I purchased and we both
will not have feedback which is fine for me. That
way I can attach a message upon receiving the
item that you have sent to you and Ebay.
Option 2
2. I start up this stupid dispute we get the money
return to my account then start the private auction.
I am fine with either one the only question I have
about option 2 is will there be a negative issue on
your account or mine or will they just got through
the procedure and not have any issues.
I am fine either way just let me know which
option unless you have a better way.
Sam
Ebay had set such a Kafka-esque nightmare in motion
that neither of the buyer’s options were now viable. I
replied.
Sam,
This is a travesty! eBay's actions are
inexcusable! I'm certain Paypal will screw it up
further by withdrawing the funds
they're depositing in my account to cover
their wicked stupid ass and
then deposit it back in your account. Rest
assure, I'm on your side. I'm afraid we can't proceed
with either of your options until we
mutually communicate our displeasure to Paypal and
eBay and demands that they straighten out this mess.
Michael
I wasted ten days including a nightmarish morning after
on this debacle of an auction and my blood was boiling!
I sent eBay a threatening email.
I will be filing a complaint against eBay for taking
this inappropriate punitive action. For eBay to have
botched a completed business deal over such a
questionable infraction opens your judgement and
behavior to legal damages. As such I reserve the right
to pursue a class action suit. Shame on you!
I thought perhaps eBay would come to its senses and
take some remedial action. But the next day they sent
me this snotty reply advising me to sue them.
Dear Michael,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your ended eBay
listing
120266505379.
I can see that you are not satisfied with this matter.
Regrettably, eBay
is no longer able to communicate with you about this
matter. The correct
means of initiating a lawsuit varies by jurisdiction.
Please understand
that I am not in a position to provide you with any
guidance on this
legal subject. If your attorney wishes to contact eBay,
he/ she may do
so. For a better understanding of our listing
guidelines and how they affect
the way you list your items, please visit the following
URL:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-ov.html
We thank you in advance for your cooperation, and wish
you luck with
your future eBay transactions.
Sincerely,
Granger
eBay Customer Support
Trust and Safety Operations
As the guy who wrote the original bible on Internet
auctions (Confessions of an Internet Auction
Junkie) I’m appalled how far eBay has sunk.
In acquiring arguably the most despised service in
the history of the Internet, PayPal, eBay has taken
on PayPal’s worst characteristics to become the
second most despised company on the Internet. Rarely
have I witness such arrogance and hubris in light of
such bumbling.
I wonder how many deals eBay and PayPal botch up like
this every day? Hundreds, perhaps thousand? I think
I’ll take their advice. If there are any class action
attorneys reading this who think it’s a good case
please contact me.